Hackers Underworld 2: Forbidden Knowledge/Hackers Underworld 2: Forbidden Knowledge.iso/OCCULT/WILSON_O.CIS

Text File | 1993-04-08 | 23KB | 642 lines

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Date:         Sun, 10 Nov 1991 13:27:32 PST
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From:         Mike Morgan DTN 592-5565 <[e-mail]>
Subject:      Wilson on CI$
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Found this on a FidoNet board...

[70310,273]
WILSON.CO                 13-Apr-86(14-Apr-86) 30945   16

    Keywords: ROBERT ANTON WILSON CO ILLUMINATI OCCULT ETC...

    Online conference with Dr. Robert Anton Wilson, leading occultist and
    former movie critic for Playboy magazine
_____________________________________________________________________________

(Sysop Jim) OK, quiet peoples.

(Sysop Georgia) I present Dr. Robert Anton Wilson

(**Bob Wilson**) Cocaine is natures way of telling you the Vatican Bank
(**Bob Wilson**) needs your money more than you do.

(Ben Rowe) Bob, since magick, and the cabala play such a role in your
(Ben Rowe) books, I'm curious to know just what you attitude towards
(Ben Rowe) such things is, here in the real(?) world. Could you state
(Ben Rowe) your feelings briefly?

(**Bob Wilson**) I regard majik and cabala as doorways to
(**Bob Wilson**) archeological levels of the human brain.

(Ben Rowe) Do you practice any form of it yourself?

(**Bob Wilson**) Yes.

(Ben Rowe) Care to say what kind?

(**Bob Wilson**) Ritual invocation, gematria.

(Avatar) To follow up on Bens question
(Avatar) Are you presently a member of any secret societies  or occult orders
(Avatar) and which
(Avatar) and could
(Avatar) you tell us your the names and your grade within them?

(**Bob Wilson**) That would be telling.
(**Bob Wilson**) Ippsissimus maximus of the Illuminati
(**Bob Wilson**) and toenail of the Head Temple of the High Preithood of Eris
 Esoteric.

(Avatar) Amusing to the last.

(Peter da Silva) I'm not sure what book this was in, I think maybe "Right Where
 you are Sitting Now"
(Peter da Silva) you were talking about the possible future of human sexuality.
 I thought that
(Peter da Silva) the sorts of things you were talking about were rather
 pedestrian. Were you...

(**Bob Wilson**) Define pedestrian?

(Peter da Silva) Well, you only considered two sexes, to begin with.

(**Bob Wilson**) Oh.

(Sysop Jim) A major oversight, no doubt.

(Rodney) When will the next volume of THE HISTORICAL ILLUMINATUS be out
(Rodney) and will there be more to follow?

(**Bob Wilson**) It will be finnished a year after I finisih writing it
(**Bob Wilson**) There will be five volumes in this series, of course.

(peter) do you think machines will ever be smatrter than people?

(**Bob Wilson**) they're already smarter than some people.

(Sysop Georgia) true!

(peter) Too right!!

(Peter da Silva) Can I be obnoxius some more?

(**Bob Wilson**) Yes.

(Peter da Silva) Back to my previous question/comment/speech/
(Peter da Silva) You didn't seem to get too heavily into the possibilities of
 bioengineering
(Peter da Silva) as touched on by such people as John Varley (Ophiuchi Hotline,
 Titan, etc)
(Peter da Silva) have you any more thoughts on the subject now that technology
 has begun to
(Peter da Silva) catch up on you?

(**Bob Wilson**) I think we can engineer immotal superhuman beings in many
 dimensions
(**Bob Wilson**) of superiority to us.  I hope we can learn to re-engineer
 ourselves
(**Bob Wilson**) neurologically
(**Bob Wilson**) to become more superhuman than our creations by learning from
 them.

(Peter da Silva) How about technological immortality?

(**Bob Wilson**) To understand anything, you must be able to make a working
 model of it
(**Bob Wilson**) The more we model the human brain, not only through
 bioengineering
(**Bob Wilson**) but through computers , themore we can make better brains for
 ourselves.

(Peter da Silva) Can't build a working model of a turing machine. We think we
 understand that.

(Avatar) First - do you think western
(Avatar) civilization will survive
(Avatar) the next century, and what do you think will be the significant events
(Avatar) which will characterize its existance?   Second
(Avatar) What do you think of the "magic" energy machine of Joesph Newman

(Sysop Jim) Ah! Glad you asked that one.

(**Bob Wilson**) Just heard of the Newman machine two days ago
(**Bob Wilson**) Too soon to form an opinion.

(Sysop Jim) On the first question then.

(**Bob Wilson**) I think western civilization will survive
(**Bob Wilson**) It will be increasingly like a libertarian, pagan, psionic
(**Bob Wilson**) science fiction novel, probably by me.

(Avatar) thanks

(Sysop Jim) As we say in the old country, Ahlevai.

(Geoff) Hi Bob...
(Geoff) A question about skepticism
(Geoff) As one of the resident skeptics, I've always advocated "keeping your
(Geoff) B.S. detector turned up on high" when investigating
(Geoff) these strange phenomena
(Geoff) my question... what degree of skepticism is appropriate
(Geoff) and when is it time to turn skepticism off?

(**Bob Wilson**) Skepticism should be dialectical
(**Bob Wilson**) doubt A, then doubt NOT A,
(**Bob Wilson**) then doubt both A and NOT A
(**Bob Wilson**) then doubt your own ability to doubt enoough.

(Geoff) GREAT!!

(**Bob Wilson**) Doubt also Doubt
(**Bob Wilson**) itself

(Ben Rowe) A crowley fan, I see.

(**Bob Wilson**) , Experiment with Alternative belief systems,
(**Bob Wilson**) enter alternative, cognitive grids
(**Bob Wilson**) and as the Zen Master said when asked the way of the Tao
(**Bob Wilson**) "Move!".

(Geoff) Thanx, Bob. And welcome to CIS!!!

(Ben Rowe) Bob, one of the perpetual arguments here
(Ben Rowe) is about the degree to which subjective phenomena, such as
(Ben Rowe) the results of magickal invocations, can be usefully
(Ben Rowe) dealt with from a an "objective", scientific viewpoint.
(Ben Rowe) Could you tell us your feelings as to the place of
(Ben Rowe) objective enquiry in such fields?

(**Bob Wilson**) Buddha said, "doubt, and find your own light"
(**Bob Wilson**) ritual is to the inner sciences what experiment is to the outer
 sciences
(**Bob Wilson**) believe nothing on faith
(**Bob Wilson**) test all things
(**Bob Wilson**) enter every reality tunnel
(**Bob Wilson**) if there are only cannabils inside
(**Bob Wilson**) close the door quickly
(**Bob Wilson**) and move to the next reality tunnel.
(**Bob Wilson**) Fear nothing, never complain
(**Bob Wilson**) Thannx.

(Sysop Jim) "Test all things" Applying what tests?

(Ben Rowe) I take it that means you think science is pretty much useless in that
 area

(**Bob Wilson**) If the hypothesis gets the result you want
(**Bob Wilson**) tentatively continue the hypothesis
(**Bob Wilson**) If the hypothesis busts
(**Bob Wilson**) make a better hypothesis.
(**Bob Wilson**) As John Lilly says, "science is the Yoga of the West"
(**Bob Wilson**) "Yoga is the science of the East".
(**Bob Wilson**) Do the experiments , watch the results
(**Bob Wilson**) I don't see that that's not scientific.

(Sysop Jim) hmmmm, sounds like good ol' hard scientific method to me.

(Ben Rowe) The problem we run into here seems to be more in finding some basis
(Ben Rowe) to talk about such things. The objectivists wont accept the
(Ben Rowe) "evidence" of the subjectivists such as myself, and vice versa.
(Ben Rowe) any ideas about finding a common ground for this sort of discussion?

(**Bob Wilson**) Objectivists are disciples of Ayn Rand
(**Bob Wilson**) see mmy definition of "disciples" under NEW AGE in religion
 SIG.

(Ben Rowe) I used the wrong word.
(Ben Rowe) I mean "wedded to objective thinking?
(Ben Rowe) I dunno, I lost track again.

(Peter da Silva) I wish I had your optimism about the future, BOB. I don't see
(Peter da Silva) libertaria any time soon
(Peter da Silva) Can you give any of your thoughts as to *how* it will come
 about?
(Peter da Silva) (wonder if I can get a straight answer this tim)

(**Bob Wilson**) I will do my part, the part only I can do
(**Bob Wilson**) from my position in space-time
(**Bob Wilson**) I believe others are doing the same thing
(**Bob Wilson**) from t